The differences between 99% and 99.5% get swamped by other differences between people within that group in traits like energy or perseverance or whatever. FWIW, anecdata in the autistic communit suggests that autistic people are more likely than average to be genderqueer in some fashion, but theres no anecdata correlating this with chromosomal sex i.e. Anecdote is not data, which overwhelmingly show a negative correlation between IQ and fertility. Currently offering travel medical insurance for nomads, and global health insurance for remote teams. I talk more about this in parts 2 and 3 here. (*), Its not hard to measure my IQ, except that it generally falls at the top of the scale where the tests dont make effective distinctions. Plus being allied to Putin would allow me to strike back at the assholes in the U.S. who treated me unfairly because they were offended by my pragmatic philosophy and refusal to play along with their ignorant social customs, so that would be a nice little side bonus. Genes encode changes to these hyperparameters. >The Gardner study seems to suggest its a very weakly elevated risk, maybe only 1.1x or 1.2x relative risk. In the graph of relatives, are autists typically on the border or inside of high-IQ regions? The result is a total mess. Against autism as "extreme male brain"? : slatestarcodex At the individual level things are generally way more complex than these symptom-based diagnoses and the key is to ask *why* the kid isnt mixing well socially, gets into fights / lashes out, or cant sit still rather than reify it as a brain dysfunction. Lilian Grebert is drinking a CAMBIER Black IPA by Brasserie Cambier at Untappd at Home. If anything, theres a slight positive correlation between the two. I am convinced there are a lot more genius now, but : However, I wouldnt be surprised if a statistically high proportion of people here are autistic or have autistic family members. For each parameters, there are many alleles in different locations that can bump the parameters a certain directionmake the babys head[1] a little bigger, for example. He is the most Civil Servicy person around. If I suggest autism is effectively what we call people whose mental resolution (in the sense of pixels per inch) is too high, would that make sense to you? I have read before that age of parents increases risk of autism. n=1 description of autism and speculation on etiology. Slate Star Codex was a blog by Scott Alexander about human cognition, politics, and medicine. After further consideration, Im unaware of any phenomenon which would correspond to a low-function, low-intelligence version. Autism, and Neurodiversity. Being able to observe a large variety of children with autism (due to activities at the charter school), I agree that autism is a very strange catch-all with many different types of children diagnosed. Regarding Narcissim, the first website I pulled up had these as the first 3 symptoms: * Have an exaggerated sense of self-importance 46.8k members in the slatestarcodex community. Because they lacked the development of the auditory processing, it was very draining for them because it mostly came across as a large amount of noise. Kindof like we could genetically engineer all people to be tetrachromats. The best-studied are probably obstetric complications, eg a baby gets stuck in the birth canal and cant breathe for a long time. (2) genes that promote autism are being selected for Hes amazing! Thats assuming that we do have a missing group of geniusesIm not sure how we track these things, or who you are counting as a genius. She hoped to use this theory to explore why some autistics show delayed language acquisition. The familial genes mentioned above: common genes that increase IQ and that evolution positively selects for. A simple model might be something like the genes for color vision. Given the problems measuring IQ in autistic people (spiky profiles, huge differences between ravens vs. weschler) its also possible that intellectual disabilities are overreported at 15%. So I gave that fact to save others the effort to dig for it, while trying to give a subtle hint to you that it is better to include the finding. Slate Star Codex Assortative Mating And Autism Posted on January 28, 2020 by Scott Alexander Introduction Assortative mating is when similar people marry and have children. ASD core diagnostic symptoms are not uniquely linked and are only very rarely expressed without nondiagnostic symptoms. The reality is that weight training only increases strength in the motion of the lifts that you do. I have many fewer data points on low functioning autistic people, who I have mostly met through church. And second, doesnt it say that in the bottom graph, the dotted and solid lines represent unadjusted and adjusted estimates, respectively? This makes it difficult to analyse high functioning autistics separate from those who would have previously been distinguished as having Aspergers. Shes unable to work in a normal public school classroom, but luckily we have a charter school that specializes in children with autism that has worked well for her. Perhaps the mechanisms for high IQ autism and low IQ autism are different. My stats-fu isnt strong enough to know if this actually pencils out, though. control children (though see the discussion here) for some debate over how seriously to take this; I am less sure this is accurate than most of the other statistics mentioned here. I dont think its quite that and even if it were, it would be really mysterious if double sickle cell genes caused more malaria! Why do people keep thinking charisma is normality, out or curiosity? https://sci-hub.tw/10.1176/appi.ajp.2018.18070881. No need for (extremely valid) concerns about whether IQ tests accurately measure (normal/low) functioning autistics, e.g. I remember seeing that article 10 years ago and Ive never followed up, so replication not guaranteed. This is consistent with the existence of people in the past who seem to be about as bright as humans get. Comparing intelligence to running fast understates the issue, it is much more like a complex rules-based game such as football, baseball, etc. But quickly selected out of the gene pool doesnt help the individual person who got one of them, who tends to end up severely disabled. This intelligence is shifted towards technical subjects. Someone at the 99.0 percentile for intelligence would probably seem quite mediocre by SSC standards. Research suggests that there is an ongoing reversed Flynn effect, i.e. This should be surprising; why would too many intelligence-promoting variants cause a syndrome marked by low intelligence? could equally be applied to people who arent especially intelligent. too many CAG repeats and the area destabilizes and you get runaway anticipation that wipes out later generations of your family. Beeminder's an evidence-based willpower augmention tool that collects quantifiable data about your life, then helps you organize it into commitment mechanisms so you can keep resolutions. These are just three randomly-selected studies; there are too many to be worth listing. Overall I would be surprised if this were the real explanation for the autism-and-intelligence paradox, but it gets an A for effort. But as mentioned before, autistic people themselves on average have lower intelligence. Think Soylent, except zero preparation, made with natural ingredients, and looks/tastes a lot like an ordinary scone. (All three were C-section births.) also didnt say anything about recruitment. no IQb + mgl: normal And so those are genes that show up as giving you a bump in your IQ in populations genetic studies. Seriously, what sort of advice do you expect? One other observation that may interest people. Arizone State University Autism symptoms reduced nearly 50% two years after fecal transplant And an article by John Elder Robison pointing out that most of our data on autistic people come from children and the extreme cases. Graph B is the same thing, but with people have have autism with intellectual disability. This can lead to bullying and social isolation, which in the long term can cause depression and the failure to learn social customs. Most of my coworkers (except for the youngest ones) are married, and many have children. Take these away and you arrive at something that seems like an effortless confidence and freedom. I would expect that to be the case based simply on the premises. The relatives of autistic people will usually have many of the genes for autism, but not be autistic themselves. His auditory channel is very slow and only turns on when you say his name or repeat the question. My relatively uninformed opinion would be: what the mutations might be affecting in lower-order terms are some subtle parameters of prior mapping, or something like a lower threshold for whats considered to be sufficient fit for model validity, or what kinds of sensory inputs to give particular significance to. a sort of arrangement where if you pick up to four of them you get enhanced intelligence, five or six and you get high-functioning intelligent autism, and seven or more and your brain crashes on boot-up and the autism stops you from functioning. About 13% of autistic children (in this sample from whatever social stratum they took their sample from) have fathers who are engineers, compared to only 5% of a group of (presumably well-matched?) The autism epidemic may have been caused by assortative mating (people with subclinical autism marrying other people with subclinical autism producing children who are autistic) The sort of people that would do polygenic scoring for IQ are exactly the sort of people whose children might already be at risk for autism (high systemisers) In other countries including those in developed areas like Western Europe and North America IQ has been on the rise. Her IQ has only been tested once, by a neuropsych, and came in around 90. (Although, arent gene-behavior connections in general pretty suspect, as per your previous post?) Instead of autism causing low IQ, low IQ (in a mental architecture that typically causes high IQ) would cause autism, and then of course when you look at the relatives of a downwards outlier you will find higher IQ. I wonder what the genetics for this would look like. Commentary: The autistic community is having a reckoning with ABA This shows a) there isnt much of a childhood autism epidemic going on, its more likely that previous underdiagnosis occurred. There could be something similar going on with autism. If females have a higher average baseline social competence, it would stand to reason that even the impaired girls would remain above the diagnosis threshold in greater numbers. (I have predicted conversations, but only because the other person forgot we already had it. If the IQ/autism risk genes are being selected for, we should be seeing more top-level geniuses each generation (Im very skeptical of this) and more autistic children (this half checks out). Several studies have shown a genetic link between autism and intelligence; genes that contribute to autism risk also contribute to high IQ. The blog was written by Scott Alexander Siskind, [1] a San Francisco Bay Area psychiatrist, [2] under the pen name Scott Alexander. Well, I think its certainly a reasonable possibility, which in my experience appears to be true, that beyond a certain point, intelligence either directly causes weirdness or is reliant upon it as a foundation. Could you elaborate? That would give me more than enough money to give the middle finger to all the ignorant normies in our politically correct society, with plenty left over to hire some bodyguards and build mechanical defense systems to insulate me from any of the outraged pearl-clutching idiots who decided to use physical violence against me when their threat of social sanctioning wasnt enough. By the same rationale, you could say that no one is normal, and everyone is simply running a mental emulation. Why? These 3 have a near 100% incidence rate among civil service employees that Ive had to interact with. But the basic eugenics of moving intelligence higher at the margin through differential fertility, or the soon-to-be possible embryo selection for intelligence, this is not an argument against that. Social relationships are not difficult and people who cannot navigate them are displaying a serious deficit. Because a masculinizing influence on the brain would militate against the development of brain structures telling the autistic person you are actually a girl.. First, the studies. I have no family history of autism. You dont need a tower-and-foundation model to explain how both higher than usual prevalence of intelligence-associated genes in autistic individuals and extremely intelligent non-autistic people. The hypothesis of the blog post is that two people with autism spectrum traits should have children with associated negative outcomes. My original post talked about dual axes, functionality and intelligence, with non-functional high intelligence becoming, effectively, a distinct kind of low intelligence. no IQb + hgl: very low IQ, non-autistic mental disorders. More evidence that autism is linked to gut bacteria First, IQ tests dont do a great job of measuring autistic people. Auditory learning is therefore the only accessible means for learning prior to the bridging of other brain functions. Go up a level and they can tell you the pitch of your hair dryer. People at the higher end of the corporate ladder that Ive met were very intelligent and also seemed generally normal, though of course they had much higher-than-normal ambition, stamina, and interest in their business. They may also have eccentric opinions or interests but theyre more likely to pursue them obsessively or compulsively without good reason, and they have trouble with self-awareness and awareness of others. The Vision Of Vilazodone And Vortioxetine. This study of three large birth cohorts finds a correlation between genetic risk for autism and cognitive ability (beta = 0.07). My vague recollection on this is a large portion of population variance in IQ is additive (like 30 or 40%? I believe autism is largely genetic and the genes that are associated with autism mainly perform functional roles in brain development and brain function. Its possible some degree of politics was involved in this decision: The World Health Organization also is eliminating Asperger syndrome from its International Classification of Diseases. no IQb + low genetic load : high intelligence, sociable, not so technically inclined Its because we selectively bred dogs to have these traits at a much faster rate than evolution could naturally develop them. the non-verbal. I. But every so often, somebody tries to do . He visually learned letter and number orders before turning 2. One possible explanation is simply that autistic children born to poor parents/less intelligent parents/disadvantaged minorities are simply more likely to die in infancy/early childhood and thus never be diagnosed as being autistic to begin with. GS-14 speaking, and Im not exactly normal either. 2016, p. 118), and there are many individually varied connections between brain and behavior (Kennedy et al. Why is this the case? comments sorted by Best Top New Controversial Q&A Add a Comment More posts you may like. But by intelligence mean the ability of a complex system (a brain) to operate effectively; so being smart is much more similar to being able to run really fast or having a good immune system.. But for me the key point is that high-intelligence fathers show a trend (albeit not significant in this study) to be more likely than average to have children with autism and intellectual disability. We dont have an understanding of how autism exists in the general populace so our data is skewed towards the worst because of where that data comes from. Someone at the 99.0 percentile for intelligence would probably seem quite mediocre by SSC standards. The mean could easily shift without creating a bunch of geniusesit is probably much easier to raise the IQ of average or above average people, just through some relatively basic improvements and guidance. She has an article on her website here: https://hennyk.com/autism-and-perfect-pitch/ and a book: https://hennyk.com/book-perfect-pitch-in-the-key-of-autism/. Note that due to conflict of interest she doesn't treat people in the NYC rationalist social scene. I am able to emulate being normal very well at work, but horrible in casual settings. But such an explanation is premature. The difference between high and low functioning autistic children is significant. This pattern is not uncommon (my son followed this trajectory), and is partly responsible for the even less uncommon belief that vaccines cause autism, because the regression coincides with vaccination. Article I wrote about Sleep Apnea, Autism, and Neurodiversity. What do The idea is that autistic children have more and finer-grained category boundaries, causing them to over-differentiate similar phonemes that most speakers use interchangeably. IQ dropping over recent decades in many developed countries, combined with lower TFR for high-IQ isnt evidence? While our latest study shows that autistic people, on average, have a shift towards a masculinised profile of scores on empathy and systemising tests, they are not extreme males in terms of other typical sex differences. I think top 1% is too low a bar for incredibly. He has the making of a superb engineer. Silicon Valley's Safe Space - The New York Times I.e. Plenty of people are both smarter and more charismatic than us. My current boss. There simply haven't been any large, decent-quality studies showing that children in ABA show significant improvements over children not in ABA. In Projections, and elsewhere, Deisseroth suggests that a major component of autism is as a bias or preference to information predictability, which anecdotally jives with what many people . And so humans recently had/still are having a massive selection for genes that require lower thresholds for immune responses, and genes that outsource some of the immune de-escalation responsibilities to gut microbes and parasites, etc in order to get a faster jump have proliferated to the point where a lot of these are normal now; this is the hygiene hypothesis or old friends hypothesis and the best outline of I can offer for it is the book An Epidemic of Absence by Moises Velazquez-Manoff. Moreover, if your family isnt too bright, you might not even recognize that theres something funny about your latest kid. I dont have time to go through all the links this morning but wanted to add some more studies. MealSquares is a "nutritionally complete" food that contains a balanced diet worth of nutrients in a few tasty easily measurable units. Naturally, things are getting worse. Theres a question if you want to go really far out, outside the modern human range, and you might get unforeseen side effects. Blindness, Schizophrenia, and Autism : r/slatestarcodex Second, my 3rd daughters birth was challenging. Two of these are diagnosed as autistic, though with very different forms. If you get the volume knob too close to the feedback point, the sound will start to behave strangely it will ring weirdly in a way its never done before. 2. But studies show autistic people generally have lower intelligence than neurotypical controls, often much lower. Not just running an emulation of normal to deal with other people? Theres a new paper out on how the frequency of variants that affect educational achievement (which also affect IQ) have been changing over time in Iceland. People with average or above average intelligence and autism are much, much less likely to be diagnosed, because one contributing cause of a diagnosis is seeing a psychiatrist, which is much more likely for people who are having trouble in classes. This study finds lower heritability than the usual estimates (which are around 80% to 90%; the authors are embarrassed by this, and in a later study suggest they might just have been bad at determining who in their sample did or didnt have autism. You could compare those estimates for IQ to those for height. A couple of things about her birth stand out when comparing the two with the other children. SYNPSH Company Profile | CROIX, HAUTS DE FRANCE, France | Competitors Or if (as really happens) it turns out that smart, ambitious people usually have their kids a decade later than dumb, unambitious people and usually the smart, ambitious people only have enough time in their fertility window for one kid while the dumb ones have time for three. Our 2nd, 4th, and 5th children are not autistic, so parent age doesnt seem to have played a role in our case (though we were both relatively young even for our fifth, at 36 and 35.). We dont let people who are neither smart nor charismatic hang out with us, and people who are both smart and charismatic dont want to hang out with us. If were gonna sit down and make Smores, we need marshmallows, chocolate, graham crackers, and a crackling fire. Anyway, if the data were there, I would suggest an alternate explanation that a significant portion of gender dysphoria is socially mediated, and the autistic are isolated from the social phenomenon. My 3rd child, a girl, is much lower functioning. It also becomes meaningless to say that no highly intelligent people are normal, since by definition, highly intelligent people will think in different ways than people with average intelligence. unsurprisingly, ID is inversely correlated with IQ; ADHD also shows a strong inverse correlation with IQ. Pure speculation on my part, but I wonder if part of the link between autism and high intelligence mightnt be explained by a non-linear relationship akin to that between arousal and performance. The Western world (taken to mean Europe and the Anglosphere) comprises roughly 1/6th of the global population, which means there should be about 125,000 Westerners who are both incredibly smart and incredibly charismatic. This post is missing a discussion of the changing meaning of autism. What is going on? Virtually everything has a failure mode. (1) Genes associated with autism arent associated with IQ 6. This study of three large birth cohorts finds a correlation between genetic risk for autism and cognitive ability (beta = 0.07). Perhaps different people train their brain using different optimization strategies, and when you optimize too well you risk ending up in the autistic basin of configuration space, which does well in the environment a fetus or baby faces. Too much difference from wild type synaptic pruning and youve got pathology in addition to the possible, but not certain, optimization. But I dont think there is overlap between the genetic factors for high-functioning and low-functioning autism. I never liked that. Social rituals are incredibly important though, humans are social animals. Could there be some sort of input(s)/connection(s) in early development which is responsible for the development or unfolding of intelligence like that? One study found that 69% of autistic people had an IQ below 85 (the average IQ of a high school dropout). 9 6 5 4 3 marries 9 2 5 4 3, children high chance of 10+ on first and autistic, children that are not autistic are just barely on the bright side of normal. These are just three randomly-selected studies; there are too many to be worth listing. This study from UK Biobank finds a genetic correlation between genetic risk for autism and educational attainment (r = 0.34), and between autism and verbal-numerical reasoning (r = 0.19). I married an autistic woman. There are no other cases of autism diagnosed in the immediate family. If missing, intelligence develops a lot less/later/incompletely? (And maybe theres some kind of subtype of autism > size of correlation thing happening, too. Flynn effect vs genetic selection. As for genetics, well, my IQ is ~135, and my wifes is right there with me (~125). I would expect a challenge, in testing the intelligence of Autistics. In sum, these findings suggest that neurodevelopmental social impairment exists in varied forms with varied etiologies and varied pathophysiologies, but the ASD diagnostic criteria do not identify a valid entity, Link to the entire piece https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007/s40489-016-0085-x.pdf. Wow! Has paternal/maternal age been eliminated as cofounding factor from parents IQ/autism correlation? IQb + low genetic load : extremely high intelligence, slight or undetectable autistic tendencies, strongly tenchnically inclined Agree with your post, and especially with this part. Awareness of it? This confuses me a little. Hrm. the Council for Evidence-Based Psychiatry in the UK on the lack of validity of diagnostic categories in psychiatry http://cepuk.org/unrecognised-facts/diagnostic-system-lacks-validity/). Increasing numbers of autistic kids at the high end, as some of the smart kids get too many overlapping IQ-enhancing genes that mess up something important. I dont think this paragraph fits the note in the image. I havent seen any real evidence for it, or even any real support for the idea as a serious theory. Spoiler alert: ASD in adults was estimated to be 1%. children who previously had normal or even remarkable verbal abilities for their age suddenly losing words. This requires a strongly non-linear sensitivity to hyperparameters, which is unusual for the fitness w.r.t. Jane Street is a quantitative trading firm with a focus on technology and collaborative problem solving. r/slatestarcodex on Reddit: oxytocin nasal spray apparently makes an Check out their free anti-anxiety guide here. I feel like unless your definition of normal includes non-highly intelligent this is just so far from true. Id guess the funny people can be funny even when their jokes bomb, because they can make their failed jokes into a joke at their own expense? I always used to get one word wrong on purpose because I preferred the silver stars. How does age of parents figure in? It wouldnt surprise me if whats perceived in higher order terms as stereotypically autistic might be a series of misses on such optimal targets, over- or under- shoots, and then you end up in a situation where a child has difficulty working out how to discard pareidolia from their mental model of the world say just because of a specific kind of synapse oversensitive in some particular way, or later they engage in repetitive behavior instead of altering their mental model to accommodate more unpredictable interactions because it appears more efficient to their brain to conserve the model because of the overstated unpredictability of the alternatives, et cetera. Another study showing how autistic people have higher prevalence in inpatient psychiatric units. Non-genetic factors. This might sound mean, and Im very sorry if this offends anyone, but just seeing what my family has gone through, I would definitely find having a severely disabled child worse than not having one and would likely be unhappy with a child any more than slightly aspie. This one comes from Gardner et al (2019), which measures the cognitive ability of the fathers of autistic people and disaggregates those with and without intellectual disability. Hence the need to go along with pointless social rituals. One of psychiatry's many embarrassments is how many of our drugs get discovered by accident. In Graph A, we see that if a child has autism (but not intellectual disability), their likelihood of having a father with any particular IQ (orange line) is almost the same as the likelihood of a neurotypical child having a father of that IQ (dotted line). So for example, bench is largely worthless if youre not pushing people away from you. surveyed ~4000 MENSA members and found that in addition to being at a signficant increase in risk not just in ASDs and mood disorders but also in food allergies, asthma and 2x RR of autoimmune conditions compared to the general population. when we did a comprehensive neuropsych his IQ came back above average (range 115-125ish depending on how you weight scales) which seems about right. Does affliction rates vary with age of both parents? people that are 30% autistic have average IQ X. If the extreme male brain hypothesis is true, then those girls have unusually masculinized brains. That seems like a poor methodology; I think it would be better to start with an unbiased sample of the general population and test them for both autism and IQ. Slate Star Codex - Wikipedia I find it absolutely bizarre that the intelligence of kids who dont fit in is often ignored. Every autism case is caused by some combination of these three factors, and the more it is caused by normal genes, the more intelligence is likely to be preserved (~100% confidence), 4. Increased parental age correlates with autism risk, AIUI. Check out the similarities. https://www.spectrumnews.org/news/race-class-contribute-disparities-autism-diagnoses/.
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