If the pick-up is retained by spring clip, swing it to one side while holding the pick-up in place. Sign up for a new account in our community. The contact points which are mounted onto the end of the armature shaft, used to time the breaking of the primary winding current, will become pitted and worn, especially so if the capacitor is faulty. A second coil, with many more turns than the primary, is wound on the same iron core to form an electrical transformer. Another problem, due to constant hot, cold, expansion, contraction, vibration or mechanical impact, is breakage of the fine winding wire. Check that the advance/retard mechanism reliably rotates the cam back and forth. Copyright 2023, Antique Automobile Club of America. detailed support we offer. -- misfiring, particularly at higher revs and fully open throttle, or when opening the throttle. performance. In the inductor magneto, the magnet is rotated and the coil remains stationary. The voltage generated across magneto coils is quite high, in the order of 20,000 volt if no spark plugs are in place. The reading should be substantially the same as the reading you obtained in the internal HT continuity section. Electrical - Armature windings, Condenser, Slip ring, Points and Bushes. %PDF-1.5 % Another cause of atom disorientation is mechanical shock, hammer blows or dropping the unit onto a hard surface, etc. An ignition magneto (also called a high-tension magneto) is an older type of ignition system used in spark-ignition engines (such as petrol engines). When we undertake the renovation of these magnetos, we examine the following:-. This was diagnosed as the cam ring not being properly timed to the magnetic poles. Great write up, with video even! Also, many magnetos (especially twin- and multi-cylinder devices) are provided internally with safety gaps, typically of 6.5 to 7.5 mm, and if the magneto cant find an outlet through whatever is or isnt connected to it, it happily sparks the safety gaps instead. Dual plugs provide both redundancy should a magneto fail, and better engine performance (through enhanced combustion). In the type known as a shuttle magneto, the engine rotates a coil of wire between the poles of a magnet. pouvons vous aider soit en franais, soit en (Chinese) Housings can sometimes get misshapen, in which case try to rectify that. Stored in the dry. Clean and grease the moving-point pivot. Could be bad parts if spark just gets a lot weaker but if spark totally goes away when cap and rotor are installed, be sure the when you install them it does not short out the primary, give the rotor a closer ground to jump to or hold the points open, etc. Comment Guidelines: Do post respectful and insightful comments. Many should appreciate. Disassemble the advance/retard mechanism carefully noting which part goes where. All rewound units now have modern condensers and enameled wire. If an earth brush is fitted behind the back-plate, check that the spring is good, that the brush is free to move and that it is not unduly worn in length or diameter. Click on a button to see magnetos from other manufacturers Bosch BTH Others Click on any picture to get a larger view any service or repair work until further notice. or This is really common on original units as the Lucas condensers were made from wax paper and foil. 82 0 obj<> endobj Lucas KF2 magneto failure - Britbike forum Make a note of the reading; youll need to refer to it later. This could be because: the brush isnt projecting far enough to touch the slip ring, so check that as best you can. It uses a magneto and a transformer to make pulses of high voltage for the spark plugs.The older term "high-tension" means "high-voltage".Used on many cars in the early 20th century, ignition magnetos were largely replaced by induction coil . The last of these possible reasons is very often the cause. Our preferred gap for spark testing in fresh air is 6 mm. With larger gaps, if the magneto is provided with a safety gap, the spark is more likely to jump there where it cant be seen, so thats a waste of time. NEWS FLASH - March 2020 As you will understand, with the Covid-19 pandemic shutting down most normal business, we are not able to despatch orders for the time being. If your magneto is loosing spark after a short amount of time running, or is hard to start it is most likely a condenser failure. With the engine running, place your hand over the pick-up with the same hand also touching the magneto body. The use of ignition magnetos is now confined mainly to engines without a battery, for example in lawnmowers and chainsaws. Please note: THEY ARE NOT FOR SALE! Italiana [6], The first car to use magneto ignition was the 1901 German Mercedes 35 hp racing car, followed by various cars produced by Benz, Mors, Turcat-Mery, and Nesseldorf. and overhauls. Wico-XH Magneto Won't Spark | Smokstak Antique Engine Community Also, with the points open, check that there is an open circuit between them; if fitted with a Brightspark EasyCap, it will take a little while for the resistance reading to climb off the scale. You can check the latter by removing the pick-up(s), rotating the armature in the proper direction until the points are just opening, and checking that the brass is visible directly underneath the pick-up hole (or one of the pick-up holes) in the magneto body. Some have both types of earth brush. This video details the work done to the magneto so far. or. Likes: 260. scotland. We shall resume operations as soon as we possibly can. Magneto parts We also sell our Brightspark range of specially-selected, top-quality, British-made slip rings and pick-ups for Lucas and BTH magnetos. Regrettably, some Acrobat .pdf files might not It shouldnt be very many ohms, and certainly less than 30 ohms. relating to our products, others more general If you are sure that all earth brushes are removed, and if either the magneto has a fibre drive pinion or the drive pinion/sprocket has been removed, you can now check the effectiveness of the bearing insulators. If you do, then replace the pick-up. SR1, SR2 & SR4 magnetos (workshop instructions) To all you guys with Lucas magnetos with problems, get ready to see it fully functional for about $23 shipped, along with a little work in your garage. It uses a magneto and a transformer to make pulses of high voltage for the spark plugs. British motorcycles on e-Bay North America, Powered by UBB.threads PHP Forum Software 7.7.5. A small number of electrons is ever present and over years or decades this flow carves out an ever widening pathway through the insulation. 0000000016 00000 n On the Lucas magnetos, the spec is to jump a .200 gap at 200 rpm for the slow speed test. Mechanical - Bearings, insulation, washers and shimming the armature. Post in the forum instead. If you are having trouble with your ignition system we recommend that you first change your spark plugs and HT leads. Thank you for your patience. So, re-check everything in the contact-breaker assembly first before deciding on a more complete overhaul. We recommend using non-resistive (copper) cable and unsuppressed plug caps. With your multimeter set to display resistance and connected to the opposite faces of the circuit board of the EasyCap (and with your fingers touching no more than one side of the circuit), the meter reading should climb up from a low value until it goes off the scale (OL). Blue spark is great but if it can only jump .03" when external of a cylinder with no compression pressureswhen you add the compression and fuel mix it will fall on its face. magnetos available for sale or in 0000001913 00000 n Contact-breaker Re-installation and Points Setting. To help magneto owners look after their magnetos 0000003777 00000 n Hi group, It is summer in Denmark, nice but my Lucas KF2 Magneto do not like high temperatures. Downloadable drawings, all for free, for If the magneto is fitted with, or about to be fitted with, a Brightspark EasyCap, you can perform some basic checks on the EasyCap. if it doesn't jump 3/16" double check the points to see if they are shiny clean the whole face of each point. 85 0 obj<>stream March 21, 2020 in Technical. I pulled my B34 out after the winter and could not get it started. In a modern installation, the magneto only has a single low tension winding which is connected to an external ignition coil which not only has a low tension winding, but also a secondary winding of many thousands of turns to deliver the high voltage required for the spark plug(s). Thorspark magneto ignition repair FAQ - Sussex motorcycles From time to time we have complete Nederlandse Take a look at some of the equipment we However, if the outside of the pick-up is also oily, perhaps its all caused by an engine oil leak. We can adapt for most applications. If you need more information, or wish to order by post or pay over the phone, please ring: 01273 913181. A short circuit absorbs all the power, hence no output or spark. How to 'Kill' a Lucas KVF Magneto? - Vincent H.R.D. Owners Club Forum The capacitor and the coil together form a resonant circuit which allows the energy to oscillate from the capacitor to the coil and back again. In the case of a main-body earth brush, try moistening a cotton bud with petrol, and poke it through the hole for the earth brush to clean the track while rotating the armature, but IMPORTANTLY before doing that temporarily remove or disable the contact breaker to reduce the risk of electric shock and fire. Checked it over and found no spark. (Japanese) magnetos and capacitors (for those who wish to classic owners. Dansk I think it may be do to condensor failure. Check for wear and replace any worn parts. With Lucas devices, the fixing hole at one end of the contact-breaker spring is slotted so that the effective length of the spring can be adjusted as necessary. Remove the pick-up(s) from the magneto taking care not to mislay the gasket(s). 2,330 views Oct 18, 2020 16 Dislike Share Air Fuel Mixologist 1.31K subscribers I purchased this Lister D petrol (gasoline). found elsewhere on the internet or in the The irony here is that usually these magnetos fail to spark. If there are any, repeat until the paper comes out clean. The other plug cap should give a reading that is infinite (OL) or extremely high. is it rebuilt? Under construction, so far showing video In either case, the magneto needs a more complete overhaul. If it is significantly higher, there is a bad connection or break in the low-tension circuit, in which case the magneto will need a more complete overhaul. rebuilding magnetos and of how to extract an We will check all the parts of the magneto for faults and will provide a firm quotation for a repair along with a description of the magneto repair required. U.S. agrees to $5 million settlement over police killing of Bijan Norsk We also sell our Brightspark range of Used on many cars in the early 20th century, ignition magnetos were largely replaced by induction coil ignition systems. detailed instructions in our 'condensectomy' At least I assume so: My timing light (seen in photo clamped to plug wire #1) illuminates correctly when plug #1 is unscrewed from the engine and sparks, but it does not light up when the plug is screwed into the engine. Oil on the inside of the pick-up is usually indicative of a failure of the magnetos oil seal, in which case the magneto will need a more complete overhaul. Lucas (and most other) capacitors made in the 50's & 60's used a paper dielectric. Any suggestions? This can mask a fault on these cars as the vehicle will continue to run until the other fails. PA. I did run the rpm up with my lathe to 1,000 rpm & it easily jumped 5/8", so were good there, SMOKSTAK is a Registered Trade Mark in the U.S. This disables the magneto to reduce the risk of electric shock and fire. We would therefore strongly advise against ever trying to make a magneto strike a spark across a gap of anything in excess of 7.5 mm in fresh air. The magneto is rebuilt by a reputable US shop. Common Faults on Magnetos IMPORTANT. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. making your own bearing and slip-ring pullers; As the magnet moves with respect to the coil, the magnetic flux linkage of the coil changes. Any high tension magneto will have way more than 7 ohms resistance on the secondary circuit. Great photos, quality! The older term "high-tension" means "high-voltage".[1]. downloadable drawings for those of you who 0000009971 00000 n With a multimeter, check the resistance between the tip of the pick-up brush and the terminal in the plug cap. I'm thinking the magneto is weak even though it was rebuilt with new condenser.. classic vehicles generally. load correctly in the translated versions of the pages. The gap will widen as the wire ends melt further apart and soon the adjacent turns will be affected so the coil will eventually fail. Turn the armature in its proper direction of rotation until the contact-breaker points are just starting to open. degrade with age. Svensk It uses a Bosch ZA4 magneto (rebuilt about 10 years back) which produces a nice blue spark in the plugs when they are out of the engine. rebuilt amature runs about 85pnds from independent ignition. Undo the contact-breaker centre-screw and remove the contact-breaker assembly. Free access to service and repair It's easy! I highly doubt it is excessive unless someone has been grinding the rotor or the cap. Place a clean piece of strong paper between the points, and with the points closed pull the paper out. NEWS FLASH - March 2020 As you will understand, with the Covid-19 pandemic shutting down most normal business, we are not able to despatch orders for the time being. Over time the HT leads can degrade and reduce the potential difference at the spark plug. V-TWINS Magnetos are always a compromise, usually producing a strong spark to one cylinder and a weaker one to the other. specially-selected, top-quality, British-made Nice work. One of the plug caps should give a reading which is substantially the same as the reading you obtained in the internal HT continuity section. 1. Measure the resistance between the magneto body and terminal in the plug cap. Translations provided by the Google Translate service. Armoto LtdRegistered & Trading Address:Unit 26, M1 Commerce Park, Markham Lane, Duckmanton, Chesterfield S44 5HSTelephone: 01246 826667 | sales@armoto.co.ukRegistered in England Company No. Then check that the contact-breaker assembly is not wobbly on the end of the shaft. With the contact-breaker assembly still removed from the magneto, and with a multimeter set to measure resistance, check that with the points closed there is a short circuit between them (as close to 0 as your multimeter goes). 0000006861 00000 n The condensers we get now are made in area's that there are no or very poor quality control checks. I do not know it all but I will try to help. When inserting the brushes; you may have to do. DIY Magneto Maintenance and Troubleshooting Lucasworkshopinstructions-magnetosLucasworkshopinstructions-otherstuffLucaspartslistsLucasATDspecificationsBTHinstructions&partslistsM-LBookletsMagntoFrancedocumentationRobertBoschDocumentationAmericanBoschworkshopinstructionsPatentsBooksandlearndpapers, Redesigned contact breaker for ring cam models, SR1, SR2 & SR4 magnetos (workshop If you do not obtain readings substantially the same as the reading you obtained in the internal HT continuity section, and if everything else you previously checked is still good, it indicates that the pick-up brush(es) is/are not making good electrical contact with the brass of the slip ring. Put a smear of grease on the lobe(s) of the cam. You are probably loosing amperage through the jumper cables. In that case, it it best to dismantle the magneto to retrieve it. Translate service. It is almost a given that a Lucas armature will require replacement if in the original condition. These are prone to deterioration and the cause of many ignition faults. If you have an auto-ranging meter, the reading might jump about a bit on the way while it changes scales. If there is a quickly-detachable connection between the HT lead and pick-up, undo it and check the condition of the connection. [5], The first person to develop the idea of a high-tension magneto was Andr Boudeville,[citation needed] but his design omitted a condenser (capacitor). Replace the main-body earth brush, if applicable. capacitance to satisfactory ignition system Franaise Deutsch Remove two nuts and funny-looking-long-thing that attaches the mag to the engine Check the plug-wires at the end that goes into the mag .and remove sparkplug-cap and make sure you have a good connection (maybe you'll want to cut of a bit and re-atttach) Remove the two high-tension pick-ups from the mag Please get in contact if you know anything about aerograph compressors especially if you have technical drawings.Last, but not least, if you want to receive notifications when more videos in this series are uploaded please subscribe to the channel. I can guarantee every British motorcycle powered by a magneto i either not delivering maximum spark and/or is on the verge of failing if the original Lucas capacitor has not been replaced. There is no wire hooked up to the cap. It may not display this or other websites correctly. If there is a difference, adjust the points so that it is the smaller gap that is 0.012 (0.3 mm). Lucas Ga4 Magneto Austin 7, Morris, Riley And Many Others Service Exchan. If it is several thousand ohms, it indicates that the HT lead is resistive and/or the plug cap is fitted with a suppressor resistor. -- Tickover, pulling away, and low-speed running erratic. Main-body Earth Brushes and Bearing Insulators: Some magnetos have an earth brush between the contact-breaker back-plate and the contact breaker housing. at some of the equipment we use in our workshop for magneto servicing If it does not jump 3/16" it probably will not fire a cylinder under compression. instructions). However, dont make them lop-sided. We also provide but enjoy doing it, with confidence, relying on the Deutsch 2. Rotate the armature and check that, when the points are fully open, the moving point assembly is not fouling anything. Electrics & Ignition | SRM Classic Bikes I would also welcome information on some of the things shown in the video such as the handles on the trolley. DO NOT ATTEMPT THIS IF YOU ARE FITTED WITH A PACEMAKER, OR HAVE A HEART CONDITION, OR IF YOU REALLY HATE ELECTRIC SHOCKS. Our The coils are, of course, designed for this pressure but no insulation is perfect. LUCAS MAGNETO TROUBLESHOOTING | JRC Engineering, Inc. In this series of pages, well take you through the main things. Copyright 2023, Antique Automobile Club of America. wish to 'demystify and simplify' wherever we can, so If there is a groove where a lubricating felt should be, but is missing, consider making and fitting a replacement. I also needed a new coil for it which I installed, cleaned the mag up and replaced any bits it needed. or 0000001015 00000 n With the Lucas KN1, it is under the identification tag. Nearly all magnetos have a gasket between the pick-up and the magneto body (a) to prevent water entry and (b) to set the correct clearance between the pick-up holder and the slip ring. Do not skimp on quality with pick-up brushes. and just how were you able to find one of those bastards that still worked?!?!?! And a f-ing video! If you havent already done so, undo the contact-breaker centre-screw and remove the contact-breaker assembly. At any one time, we reckon to If it was a typo then you can run it with the cap and rotor off by just holding your wire to the HT terminal and that would eliminate the cap land rotor from the equation. Twin sparks provide two flame fronts within the cylinder, these two flame fronts decreasing the time needed for the fuel charge to burn. the brush spring is not touching the terminal in the pick-up holder; the connection between the cable and the pick-up is corroded; the screw in the plug cap has gone down the side of the HT cable and not down its centre; Slip-ring item. They were used in the village forge in Cullworth (northaptonshire). Check the state of the tappet and replace if necessary. The points gaps with the heel at the centre of each lobe of the cam should be the same, but a small difference is inconsequential. use in our workshop for magneto servicing Repeat with clean pieces of petrol-moistened rag, until the rag comes out clean. We provide However, if the reading is more than 7000 ohms, there is probably either a break in the HT winding, or a bad connection between the live end of the HT winding and the slip-ring. The original coil may be reusable, although it is susceptible to faults - as described in our section: common problems on magnetos. The spark is fine on this coil, keep in mind the faster you turn a mag, the better the spark. If not free to move, ease it. Lister D Magneto Lucas RS1 full rebuild but still no spark Coil Fail. "Specializing in Triumph and other fine Vintage motorcycles". Lucas magneto problems? NEW CHEAP solution to bad condensor This was examined earlier. A Without suppressor: suppressor: Percentage difference with suppressor: Peak HT voltage to initiate spark: 9600 V: 10600 V at magneto: 10.4 %: 9300 V at spark gap-3.1 %: DC component of HT current immediately after striking spark: 53 mA: 52 mA-1.8 % As the field collapses rapidly there is a large voltage induced (as described by Faraday's Law) across the primary coil. It's a 6v system, so the starter turns rather slowly (maybe 80rpm), but I think it should be fast enoughto start. This Lucas KVF magneto was rebuilt 7,000 miles ago and failed at around 3,000 miles with loss of spark on one cylinder. Check the state of the heel of the moving-point assembly. This disables the magneto to reduce the risk of electric shock and fire. The permanent magnet can be static, as in the classical horse-shoe form, with the transformer windings rotating between the poles, or sometimes the magnet is mounted on the armature and rotates within the core of a static winding. If you are using an auto-advance timing gear, stuff a length of fuel line in the mech to hold it at full . commonly found on classic motorcycles. i totally agree. This dissipates the energy that was stored in the condenser in time for the next closure of the points, leaving the condenser discharged and ready to repeat the cycle. To maintain a dedicated website that covers the AJS and Matchless Owners Club Limited | Print Article - Jampot 0000005952 00000 n With some magnetos, the main-body earth brush is accessible with the magneto in situ. That then produces a gap of about 4 mm between the centre electrode and the screw-threaded bit of the plug body. 0000002602 00000 n i have had 3 done here by ed strain that included rebuild with remagnatized body for a little more than $200.00. Brightspark Magnetos - Home insulators; and timing discs. The magneto gives a good spark when spun by hand or when kicked over with the plugs removed. The engine needed some attention, which it has now received, but I had to take the magneto off. Re-install the contact-breaker assembly, ensuring that it registers properly with the armature shaft. If necessary, dress the points on a fine stone. I can never stress this enough to people who try to test out their mags. 0000005012 00000 n long practical experience of working on magnetos and Fantastic! If you have a Megger or similar insulation tester, set it to test at 500V. 096792012013 - 2020 | Website design by The Net Effect of Sheffield, Website design by The Net Effect of Sheffield.
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